...in the house of David Jacoby,
who was a friend of his.
And I asked David, I said,
"Would you go help me?"
He was with me probably...
...2:00 or 3:00 in the morning.
May the 6th.
Jacoby here is kind of a witness.
He never had this window of opportunity
to perpetrate a crime like that...
...because he was with him
for such a long period of time.
We got a sample
of David Jacoby's DNA voluntarily...
...and the analysis came back to say
that another hair...
...that was found on a tree stump by
the ditch where the bodies were found...
...was consistent
with David Jacoby's DNA.
I wasn't even aware
that he went to David Jacoby's.
According to Terry, he was walking the
streets and searching the whole night.
So that was news to me
when I found out.
Is there anything you can think of
that we hadn't gone over?
That we hadn't asked, something
you remembered through the years?
You'd thought they would do a
meaningful interview with Terry Hobbs.
It was as if they were sitting out
on the back porch just sharing a beer.
"We know you didn't
have much to do with this.
Just, you know, for old time's sake,
why don't you describe again...
...how you didn't have anything
to do with this?"
It didn't have the atmosphere
of a serious interrogation at all.
You know,
I don't know what happened...
...out there in them woods that night.
Mike Allen, the lead investigator
at the time...
...and now the sheriff
of Crittenden County...
...issued a statement saying
Terry Hobbs was not a suspect then...
...and he's not a suspect now.
A question that has got to be asked
is that why have they so staunchly...
...refused to regard him
as a person of interest?
There. Terry, appreciate it, man.
As we sit here today, there are 272
post-conviction DNA exonerations.
DNA is the essential element
to prove their innocence...
...and these people have done
more than 3500 years in prison.
On the other hand,
there are many, many cases...
...where there's been DNA that's helpful,
as in the West Memphis Three case...
...because it does shed light
on other suspects.
And it does put particular significance
on the absence of evidence.
There's an old phrase
in the forensic science business...
...that absence of evidence
is not evidence of absence.
Yeah, that's true.
On the other hand,
when you have DNA testing...
...and you've gone through every piece
of trace evidence at a crime scene...
...and you find nothing
that links the defendants...
...who have been convicted
to the crime, that is significant.
This may be Damien Echols'
final appeal at the state level.
If his arguments are denied,
the case then jumps into federal court.
A decision is expected
in about a week.
All the investigative findings,
the scientific results...
...including the DNA, all of that is going
to be presented to Judge Burnett.
Finally, Judge Burnett can consider
this case with all this new information...
...that wasn't available to him
or the prosecution back in 1994.
And so we were looking forward
to having him reevaluate the case.
We really had high hopes.
We wanted to give the attorney general
some sense that it was coming.
We told him that there'd be
these DNA results...
...and we got into a discussion.
What would you have
to show to get a new trial?
And there was a point of laughter
where one of them said:
"We're gonna set this bar
as high as we possibly can.
Which is to say, we're gonna try
and get a court to rule...
...that it is really impossible to ever win
under the Arkansas DNA statute."
People ask us what we're gonna do
whenever I'm out, when we're together.
And we do talk about that.
For Lorri and I, life isn't something that
will happen one day down the road.
You know, we're together now, here.
We're not just in a state
of suspended animation, waiting.
He was 21, I guess, when I met him.
He hadn't yet really started studying
at that point, so it was kind of funny.
You know, I was in a different place
in my life, and-- But now...
...I mean, I would ask him for advice
before I would ask anybody.
I send him a lot of used books,
and it is really fascinating to look at.
Because when I'm reading a book
or when he's reading...
...then we're going through--
As everyone does in their life.
--you're going through specific things.
You have 90 seconds...
...left on this call.
Uh, I don't normally read
a lot of fiction anymore.
I haven't for several years...
...but a couple of days ago, someone
sent me the new Stephen King book.
You know, I started reading his
books when I was probably...
...10 or 11 years old.
People have always
undervalued him.
You know,
they look at him as this, um, hack.
This hack writer who churns out...
...horror novels.
In all of his books at the end...
...he always addresses the reader.
You know, he thanks you
for going on this voyage with him...
...and so I wanted to read it to you.
"All right, I think we've been down here
in the dark long enough.
There's a whole other world upstairs.
Take my hand, constant reader...
...and I'll be happy to lead you
back into the sunshine.
I'm happy to go there...
...because I believe most
people are essentially good.
I know that I am.
It's you I'm not entirely sure of."
A judge says no to new trial.
Judge Burnett made it clear that DNA
evidence isn't enough for a new trial...
...or to overturn the conviction.
David Burnett wouldn't hear
the new evidence.
He complete--
He denied it without even hearing it.
What can you do? I mean, in our minds,
we started to entertain the idea...
...that Damien might be executed.
My life would have been a lot simpler
if I hadn't been involved in that case.
I had to fiddle with it for 18 years
and get beaten over the head by folks...
...that were opposed to what happened.
But I didn't pick and choose,
I just took what came down the pipe.
It's not unusual
for post-conviction motions...
...to be made in front of the judge
that originally heard the trial.
The theory behind that is the judge
who originally heard the trial...
...saw all the witnesses testify...
...and is in the best position
to evaluate the new evidence.
But all of us are victims of bias that
we don't even understand or know...
...and sometimes you have
to abandon hypotheses...
...that you've relied on in the past...
...and try to freshly evaluate
the evidence.
All of this hoop-de-la about
newly discovered evidence.
There is no
newly discovered evidence.
All of the evidence that was found
originally at the trial scene.
Judge David Burnett finally decides
to stand for Senate.
We hoped like hell
that he would get elected.
Because once he was elected
to Senate...
...he was unable to have anything
to do with this case anymore.
So Judge Burnett heard
what he heard...
...and he and his jury
made their decision.
It was up to people from all over
the world, and that would be you.
And the people next to you
right now...
...coming together to make
some real justice happen.
I would like to read something
to you guys.
"I can't remember what it's like to walk
as a human being anymore.
It's been well over 16 years since
I've actually walked anywhere.
There are times when I've thought...
...surely, someone is gonna put
a stop to this.
Oh, well, it does no good to dwell on it.
Either I waste my energy by focusing
on things I cannot change...
...or I conserve my energy, and
apply it to small things I can change."
Each small thing connects
to make a great, big thing.
And that big thing is
to bring those boys back home.
This is something
I came across today...
...and it's just a small paragraph of one
of Damien's letters from this February.
"The thing I like most about time
is that it's not real. It's all in the head.
There's no such thing as the past,
it exists only in the memory.
There's no such thing as the future,
it exists only in our imagination.
If our watches were truly accurate,
the only thing they would ever say...
...is 'now.'"
And that's what time it is. Now.
One day, I get a phone call
from my manager...
...saying Terry Hobbs is suing me.
"Dearest Lorri,
are the Dixie Chicks fighting this?
This is a great opportunity to give
Terry Hobbs his day in court...
...get all the facts out in the open
and let a jury decide."
You swear to tell nothing but the truth...
- ...so help you God?
- I do.
- State your name for the record, sir.
- Terry Hobbs.
You can put your hand down now.
Could you tell the ladies and gentlemen
why you sued my client?
All of the emotions, distress, the anger.
That her statements caused you?
- Correct.
- I didn't say anything about him.
I had no intentions of finger-pointing
at Terry Hobbs.
I don't even know
that Terry Hobbs did it.
I sort of asked my attorney,
"Why would he be doing this?"
He was confident
that he was gonna win...
...and he was gonna get
millions of dollars.
I think he's gutsy.
He had to have been warned that if he
did that, he would have to be deposed...
...which he was,
and have to answer questions.
We gave Natalie's attorney,
D'Lesli Davis...
...access to our investigative files
on Terry, his background...
...his relationship with Stevie.
And it enabled them to basically...
...sit him down
and to finally question him...
...in a way that he had never, ever been
questioned about this murder before.
Describe your reputation, other than
"a good man." What else would it be?
A hard-working man, good dad,
good husband in the past.
Pretty good man.
- Are you an honest fellow?
- I try my best.
- Law-abiding man?
- I do pretty good at it.
We started doing background
on Terry.
I went to Garland County because
I knew he had lived there before...
...specifically to interview his ex-wife.
And it raised some flags at that point.
She told me he had gotten in trouble.
I went to the court records...
...in Garland County and pulled
the incident involving Mildred French.
Let me give you a minute to go through
the declaration of Mildred French.
- All right.
- Have you read it?
No, I'm not going to.
- Why not?
- It don't mean nothing to me.
- Why doesn't it mean anything to you?
- It just don't.
Mildred French was a neighbour
of yours back in the '80s, wasn't she?
I don't remember.
Paragraph number four, "On one
occasion I heard a baby crying...
...and sounds that indicated to me
that Terry Hobbs was beating his wife...
- ...and/or his child."
- She kind of let out a cry...
...and then I heard the baby.
"I ran next door to Terry's unit...
...and rang the bell
to Terry Hobbs' residence."
He said it was none of my business...
...and I said, "I'm making it
my business, you do it again."
I said, "Because I've heard you before."
- Do you recall she was your neighbour?
- Some old woman was.
"A few months later,
I worked outside in my yard.
I went inside my home to take a shower
and get cleaned up."
And I got out of the tub and when I was
reaching in to get the towel....
"Terry Hobbs, who had broken in...
...and somehow gotten upstairs
into my bathroom...."
I didn't see him come into the bathroom.
He just grabbed me on my breasts.
"I screamed at Terry loudly,
'What are you doing in my house?'
- And screamed, 'Get out!'"
- He said:
- "I kept repeating loudly."
- "Get out of my house!"
"And ultimately Terry ran out of my
home and ran downstairs into his unit."
What is your recollection
of those events--?
- I don't have any.
- Let me finish.
What is your recollection of the reason
that the police were called...
...and those events that Ms French
remembers so clearly?
I don't have any.
"I said to Terry,
'Tell them what you did to me.'
Terry looked at me square in the eye
and said calmly, 'It never happened.'
I looked at Terry and told him,
'You are a liar and you are sick.'"
And I say, "You know, you're sick."
And he says, "Yeah, I'm sick."
I never did like him, I mean....
Even when Pam first married him...
...there was just always something.
He creeped me out.
- Do you lose your temper very often?
- No.
- Pretty even-keeled guy?
- Try to be.
He's got a look that's plum evil...
...and when that look of evil comes
over him, you know, I know he's mad.
- What-- What's this?
- It is a judgement...
...against one Terry W. Hobbs
for aggravated assault in '94...
...in conjunction with the shooting
of your brother-in-law.
Is that your signature at the bottom
of the first page, sir?
It is.
He can snap into a nice guy
and a bad guy by a snap of a finger.
You did backhand Pam Hobbs...
...the night you ended up
shooting her brother...
- ...correct?
- Okay.
- Is that correct?
- Yeah. All right.
Is that funny?
Well, it's-- You get tired of talking
about it after a while.
I need, for the record, for you
to state under oath that you did...
- I did.
- ...backhand Pam Hobbs.
It was over a jealousy of a woman.
I was just trying to get away
and calm down, cool off...
...and come back home,
and he wouldn't let me have the keys.
So he punched me pretty hard
that day.
Were you jealous over the attention
that Pam gave to Stevie?
- No.
- Did you compete with Stevie...
- ...for Pam's attention?
- No.
He had made a comment to his mom
that I paid more attention to my son...
...than I did, you know,
being a wife, so....
Stevie started talking to me probably
when he was about 6 years old...
...and he wanted to know
if I could keep a secret.
And I told him, yeah, because we were
really-- We were very, very close.
Kind of like, you know,
grew up together.
Because I was 8 years old
when he was born.
Daddy Terry, as he called him,
was mean to him.
And that he-- He treated him
different than Amanda.
The very first thing he ever told me
is about how he would whup him.
Make him hold his hands up
in the air...
...and he would hold him
by the hair of his head...
...while he was whupping him.
He'd hold their hands in the air
as he whipped them.
Sometimes when he whipped Stevie,
he would leave belt marks on him.
- Is that true?
- No.
- Did you whip Stevie with a belt?
- Yes.
Is it true that you whipped Stevie and
made him hold his hands up in the air?
I didn't want to hit him on the hands.
- So that's true?
- Yes.
The only thing that's not true
about paragraph number 10...
....is that you would leave belt marks
on him?
Not that I recall.
Stevie had a belt mark on him,
and I asked Pam who whipped him.
I thought she had
and she said Terry did.
She didn't want to tell at first,
but she finally told me.
Stevie never would tell us because
he's afraid he'd get beat to death...
...or whatever when he got home.
And about locking him up in the closet
if he didn't do what he was told...
...right when he was told.
I lived with them.
I was around them off and on.
It was a happy time.
I've got pictures...
...everybody's smiling,
everybody's happy.
Everybody's swimming,
everybody's having a good time.
There was no fighting
and screaming and hollering...
...and beating the kids
and stuff like that.
I can't say, "I wish he wouldn't
have married her." I can now.
Back then I didn't know her
enough to say:
But I do now, so:
Then he got into more detail about
things that were happening about....
Terry would come into his room
while he was asleep or going to sleep...
...and he would make
Stevie watch him masturbate.
It progressed so much that he started
making Stevie mess with Amanda.
- Is that true, sir?
- No, it's not true.
Can you think of any reason that
Judy Sadler would say that about you...
- ...if she had not heard that from Stevie?
- You'd have to ask Judy.
- Can you think of any reason?
- No.
She's told me about that,
but I really feel like, if that was true...
...why didn't you say that
16, 17, or 18 years ago?
Why do you wait this long to say it?
Because maybe if it would have
been true and she said something...
...then my mom would've kept me,
she would've fought for me.
This is kind of a new thing for y'all,
this therapy stuff...
...so that's pretty stressful.
But you'll get comfortable with that.
"Guilt. I feel guilty all the time."
Can you put a finger on the guilt?
- Where's that guilt coming from?
- I don't know.
Just can't seem to pick it out?
Attached here, too, is exhibit one,
pages from Amanda Hobbs' journal...
...in her handwriting.
"You know, I think I'm the only
19-year-old that can't remember...
...what happened in my life
10 years ago.
Was I traumatised as a child that
I had to turn to drugs to forget about it?
I used to tell my mom,
'My dad messed with me.'
I honestly don't remember.
I used to dream about my dad having
sex with me, but it was just a dream.
As far as I remember,
my dad never touched me sexually...
...but he beat the hell out of me."
He hit me one time with a belt,
but he used the buckle.
And it left a welt, probably that thick,
across my back and it was purple.
Is it still your testimony
you never hit your daughter?
- Correct.
- You never sexually molested her?
Never one time.
When we talk about emotional or
other problems your daughter has had...
...you do not feel you are responsible
for any of those.
- Is that correct?
- Correct.
I know Stevie asked me about two
weeks before he was murdered...
...to leave Terry,
and I asked him why.
And he said, "He loves Amanda,
but he don't love me."
I feel like I'm putting the pieces
of a puzzle together and I'm so scared.
Talking to Terry over things
that's happened and all that...
...they did their job,
they got the right ones, and all this.
I just want the truth. I want the answers.
Since the programme aired,
convictions were handed down...
...to all three of the accused teenagers,
and it became undeniable...
...that the brutal murders
had been part of a Satanic ritual.
Back with us today,
Pam and Terry Hobbs.
I mean, all murder is horrible.
Is the manner of his,
the specific manner in which he died...
...is that something
that will always haunt you?
Yeah, I'll go to my grave with it,
thinking about it.
I realise my son is in a better place.
I got a phone call back in 2003
about the Hobbs knives...
...that Pam discovered
when their marriage went south.
What stuck out to our attention
is Stevie's knife in there.
According to Pam, that knife
would have been in the boy's pocket...
...the day that he was murdered,
and so that was very interesting.
How did he get it?
More important, when did he get it?
Pam says she knows Stevie Branch
had it until he died. Terry Hobbs says....
I was his dad,
I was acting as a responsible parent.
Not letting a 6-, 7-, 8-year-old little boy
carry a pocket knife.
Aren't you aware that his mommy,
his mother...
...said that he carried the knife with him
up until the time that he disappeared?
So?
And she stated that she didn't trust...
...the prosecution and she wanted
to turn it over to the defence.
I'm asking if it surprised you, given
the fact that the West Memphis Police...
...has spent so much time
and so much money over the years...
...saying they got it right, that when
DNA attributed to someone else...
...was found in the ligature
of one of the victims...
...that they attributed it
to secondary transfer?
- What if it was secondary transfer?
- What if it wasn't?
- What are you saying?
- I'm saying there could be a question...
...about whether or not you were
somehow involved in these crimes.
Well, who says that?
How do you explain
Mr Jacoby's DNA?
- Which is the second--
- I have no explanation for that.
- Objection to form--
- We was in them woods all night.
The first time I heard about DNA was...
...the lack of DNA at the crime scene.
The first time I heard about my DNA,
it was just shock therapy, I think.
Telling me that they found my DNA
at the crime scene.
Sleepless nights, you know,
going over and over...
...trying to see if there was something
you missed or heard or....
It's your testimony Mr Jacoby was
with you all night in the woods?
- We were together quite a bit that night.
- No, that's not my question.
You testified earlier
that you and Mr Jacoby...
...were together all night
until it was time...
- ...for him to go to work.
- Exactly.
- Is that your story, or did it change?
- No, we were.
So I'm at home
and I hear a knock on the door.
And it's Terry and Amanda.
I ask him what's he doing. He says:
"Oh, looking for Stevie,
he was supposed to be home."
"Terry and Amanda
came inside my house.
Amanda played with toys and Terry
and I sat down and played guitars...
...for up to one hour." You've
already stated that it's possible...
...you went to David's house
and played guitars for one hour.
- I didn't say that.
- You said that in your last deposition.
I don't recall playing the guitars.
I went over to see if David would
help me look for the three little boys.
"Pretty Woman," Roy Orbison.
I handed him my guitar and asked him
to play that part of that song again...
...so I could get it down and he--
We did that two or three times...
...you know, before I finally got it right.
So, you know,
a little time went by and he says:
"Well, you know,
I need to go look for Stevie."
I said, "Terry, let me know.
Let me know where you find him."
Did you see Stevie at all that day,
May the 5th?
No, I did not.
Did you see any of the three boys
that day?
No, I did not.
I think the timeframe is what
pulled us in more than anything else...
...because I was like, "Wait a minute."
We went to church every Wednesday
at the same time.
We left about 6:30 every single
Wednesday, we never missed church.
And we saw them out there.
Terry Hobbs and Steven Branch
lived three houses down from us...
...on South McAuley.
About 6:30, we came out the door
and Steven was in front on his bike.
Christopher and Michael
were running behind him...
...and they zoomed out real fast.
I told Christopher,
I yelled to him, "You need to go home.
Your brother said to go home."
He said, "I don't have to do
what you tell me to do."
And I saw Terry walking down
the sidewalk, and he was saying:
"Y'all come back down here,"
and they all went in that direction...
...toward him and we got in the car
and went to church.
The next day at school,
Ryan came up to us and he said...
...they couldn't find his brother,
his brother didn't come home.
I told him, "I saw your brother,
I talked to him.
I told him to come home.
What are you talking about?"
He was really devastated,
he was crying.
And he said that they found his brother,
and he wasn't alive anymore.
We knew we saw him...
...but we thought,
"There, his dad was out there with him.
Surely, they told him
that they were down there."
So we thought all this time
that they already knew.
If deemed credible, it's more damning
than even the DNA evidence, you know.
I mean, the last person to be
in the presence of these three victims.
By denying that occurred, rather than
offering any explanation of it...
...it's awfully powerful stuff.
These people here
were never interviewed.
They were just neighbours of Hobbs.
Hobbs wasn't interviewed.
Didn't do a neighbourhood.
They'll swear on a stack of Bibles
that they saw Terry Hobbs...
- ...with the three children around 6:30.
- I don't know how many years...
...before anybody had asked me
anything about it too.
You say you were not ever alone...
...on the night of May 5th
and the morning of May 6th...
...and yet David Jacoby
says you left his house twice, alone.
What Jacoby has told us so far...
...is that it could be two hours where
Terry Hobbs can't be accounted for.
I'm saying that
you don't have an alibi witness...
...for two to two and a half hours
on the evening of the murders.
- From 6 p.m. to 8:30 p.m.
- I don't know.
- Does that concern you?
- No.
Hello?
Hey. Had me a visitor today.
John, what's--? John Douglas?
John's the FBI.
What'd he say?
There's a bunch of discrepancies
on where I said where we're at...
...and where you say we were at,
and it just....
I don't give a shit what them people
got to say...
...about where I was at
and what time I was there.
We don't have to answer
to them people.
David is his primary alibi...
...and what he has done in the past,
he's fed information to David...
...putting them together.
I don't know, from what I said
and what you said...
...and what they're telling me,
6:30 to 9:30's really fucked up.
Six-thirty to nine-thirty.
I don't know what they're playing....
We rode around
looking for three little boys.
We got out and we did a little walking,
looking for three little boys.
I went and picked my wife up
at 9:00.
"Where did you ride around,
Mr Hobbs?" West Memphis.
What?
You was with me, David.
You remember that?
Jacoby is starting to realise
that he was being set up...
...by Terry Hobbs as an alibi.
Well, we know we didn't do it, okay?
The police know who done it...
...and they're sitting in prison.
At the time, I wasn't looking
for three murdered kids.
I was helping my friend
look for his kid...
...and who happened to be
with another kid...
...who happened to be with another kid.
- So I mean, and what upsets me is....
- Yeah.
I gotta stop with the camera,
here it goes.
It just gets me that he didn't come back,
you know? Fuck.
Why do you not come back
to your friend's house to help you...
- ...if you can't find your kid?
- Yeah.
I stopped myself from saying
that he did it...
...you know, in all these years.
I've actually, you know,
said he couldn't....
It gets to the point, I'd give
my life to know the fucking truth.
Fucking Terry.
But I've been that little kid, you know?
- You been that step--? That stepchild?
- That stepkid, yeah.
That gets his ass whupped
at the drop of a hat for--
You know, for something
somebody else's done.
And you catch
what's built up from everybody else.
And that, I felt that with Stevie.
I mean, like with the marbles.
He's throwing marbles
and bouncing them off the wall.
Terry is telling him,
"I'm gonna bust your ass. Quit.
Stevie, I'm gonna bust your ass.
Stevie, quit.
Stevie, quit. I'm gonna tell you
one more time, Stevie."
And, you know, you just want--
You wanna get that last marble.
And Stevie's looking like that
last marble's fixing to come again...
...and I said, you know, "Sit down, let
me show you how we played marbles."
And it got Terry, you know,
off of him, and....
Terry hated him.
What he did to him
to make him hate him, I don't know.
Stevie was scared of Terry.
He was hid in the closet, and I asked
him why he was hid in a closet.
You know,
he had a mishap in his underwear...
...and Daddy Terry would whip him.
And one time he had thrown him
against the wall.
I do not believe the homicide
was planned.
This person responsible for the murders
lost control and had to kill them.
They were already heading that way,
he said, "Get back down to the house."
And they passed him,
they were laughing and playing.
We thought it was a normal day.
It was things we saw them do
all the time.
You were not angry in the sense
that you become physically abusive?
Correct.
These young boys were overpowered.
- You do not fly into rages?
- Correct.
- And you do not beat your children?
- Never.
If he was capable of doing this,
and I can almost picture it...
...that he freaked out,
and the other two boys being there....
They've got skull fractures,
they've got brain injuries.
If it had been an accident,
the Terry Hobbs that I know...
...no, I don't think that he would say
that, "I accidentally did this.
I'm sorry," and turn himself in for it.
These children were alive
until they inhaled water and drowned.
To do what he did to the children,
hide the clothing, hide the children...
...he got in water, got muddy.
There's been some discussion
about you doing laundry...
...the evening of the 5th
or the morning of the 6th.
- Recall that?
- It didn't happen.
- You didn't do laundry?
- No.
I saw him cleaning.
I saw him washing clothes.
I saw him in Stevie's room.
I mean, he had bleach and everything
and was cleaning.
I had never seen Terry
clean anything...
...the whole time I had known him.
When he took me to work, I believe
Terry changed into a purple tank top...
...a pair of shorts
and his LA Gear tennis shoes.
He's muddy,
he has to change his clothing.
When he picked me up from work...
...he was in blue jeans
and flannel top shirt on.
He has to get prepared
and wait to be interviewed.
And you have a dispute with every
single one of your alibi witnesses.
If you put
all of these statements together...
...and all the evidence together
that I've just run through...
...and you're the police...
...wouldn't you wanna
look at Terry Hobbs for this murder?
You'd have to look at Terry Hobbs.
From an investigative perspective...
...it solidifies Terry Hobbs
as the principal suspect.
It's gonna be tough
for someone like him to confess.
If he is in fact the guy,
it's extremely tough.
He's had 18 years to think about it.
He's got an answer for everything.
You throw him a pitch, he's got it.
You know, he knows how to hit it.
The attorney general's office
has taken the position...
...that not only should these
wrongly convicted young men...
...not have the opportunity
to prove their innocence...
...but that no one ever in Arkansas...
...be given that opportunity
on the grounds that Arkansas...
...is incapable
of ever convicting anyone wrongly.
It's one thing to build perception
that there's something wrong.
It's another thing to get
a formal judgement overturning it.
There are still some formidable
legal obstacles...
...to opening that door.
Tell us why you're here today.
I'm here for justice
and the real killer to be found out.
If I've had to be the spotlight
of people thinking I was involved...
...if that kept the case alive
to get where we are today...
...I'd turn around
and do it all over again.
Talk about what's been so impactful in
this case that has changed your mind.
Because that day,
you believed he was the killer.
That day I believed
what the state told me.
And it took quite a while
of being blinded...
...and when I finally got my answers...
...none of the roads
led to the three in prison.
All the roads and all the evidence
lead to Terry Wayne Hobbs.
This case is outrageous.
People need to get involved and help on
this case. I am happy to get involved...
...donating my time,
time from my law firm, pro bono...
...because these young men
need a fair trial.
If they're convicted again? Fine.
But do it fair. Do it constitutionally.
It's an endurance test
to keep up with this.
I think I was in my late 20s
when I first heard about it.
I am now 45.
We'd buy Doritos and Skittles
and M&M's.
And we'd sit down, and I'll have napkins
and then Damien would say:
"All right, put out your napkin,
okay, try this, all right.
One Ruffle, two orange Skittles.
All right, get the root beer ready.
Now eat that, drink that
at the same time, isn't that crazy?"
It's a long process. We've all had to
educate ourselves and learn patience.
We'd make a small breakthrough...
...or something and Lorri and I would
have a long two-hour phone call.
We'd get off the phone...
...think this is gonna be a happy ending.
There's gotta be a happy ending to this.
One thing that could happen
is they could say no.
"Judge Burnett was right.
You lose, no new hearing, Damien.
Sorry, done."
And then he literally is done
in the Arkansas court.
The oral argument today...
...is Damien Wayne Echols
v. the State of Arkansas.
So we have a situation here
where the Arkansas legislature...
...passed these statutes out of, quote,
"In response to nationwide concerns...
...that innocent persons
were being imprisoned...
...and even executed
for crimes that they did not commit."
However, the state takes the position...
...that the only evidence other than DNA
allowed in a DNA action in this state...
...is evidence of guilt.
The fact of the matter is
that DNA evidence...
...that couldn't have been obtained
15 years ago...
...begins to make things relevant.
Connect to other evidence that did
not appear relevant 15 years ago.
So your interpretation is it's not really
just new scientific evidence.
It's new evidence
across the board that'll come?
Yes, Your Honour.
The animating purpose of this statute...
...is not to do away
with finality of judgements...
...but to test evidence of innocence.
Doesn't that include the last 17 years?
No, well, I'm sorry.
Does it include the last...?
The last 17 years, or are you limiting
the evidence that can be presented?
You can't bring in evidence that is just
further reweighing of evidence...
...that state post-conviction processes
permit you to make in other forums.
Now certainly he would like to have
a much freer reign...
...to go back to court
and bring in 17 years' worth of claims...
...that have been made
and retry his case.
Counsellor, what harm is there in
allowing him to present the evidence...
- ...from the last 17 years?
- I'm sorry?
What harm is there to--?
In allowing him to present all evidence?
The harm is in the finality
of a criminal judgement...
...that is not demonstrated
to have any constitutional...
...or procedural defect
and just to try it again. I mean....
We would submit that the court
is to consider the DNA evidence...
...along with all other evidence,
whether or not admitted at the first trial.
All simply means all.
I talked to him, actually,
right after the hearing.
Guards came into his cell...
...and took everything,
everything he owns. All of his books.
Fifty-one books, his journals, his shoes.
When he asked
why they were doing that...
...they said they were sick
of seeing him on the news.
It's terribly abusive.
They were horribly abusive to him.
They don't like
the death-row thing.
They're trying to get
Damien Echols off of death row...
...so they can put
two new people in there...
...and you know
who them two new people is?
Don't even say it.
Me and you.
I ain't never felt the need to have to...
...try to defend somebody
in our family before...
...but now I feel like
my brother's getting a bad rap.
Somebody's got to say something.
He, obviously, is just gonna
keep letting it go and letting it go...
...because he feels like he's
had enough, you know, and it's--
Somebody needs to say something.
If they're trying to put the blame
on someone...
...they need to dig deeper
and find that someone.
Received December 11th
at 11:02 a.m.
Ummm.... Hello.
I need to speak to somebody...
...so please have someone call me.
- Marker.
- State your name, please.
- Blake Sisk.
- How old are you?
- Twenty years old.
- Okay.
The other day, the tipline got a call.
This young man had been a friend...
...of Michael Hobbs Jr.,
who is the nephew of Terry Hobbs.
Michael Hobbs Jr. lives in a town
called Mountain Home, Arkansas.
His dad, Michael Hobbs Sr.,
runs a restaurant there...
...and they've lived there
for a long time.
First thing he told us was that
when he was about 12 or 13...
...he and Michael Hobbs Jr.
had been playing football in the yard.
When they got done playing football,
they came into the house...
...got a drink and were gonna
go to the basement to play pool.
Michael said, you know,
that his uncle and dad...
...were in their downstairs basement...
...and we were gonna go downstairs,
but his dad hollered...
...you know, "Don't come down here,
we're busy talking."
So me and Michael
decided to listen in.
Michael Hobbs Jr. told the witness...
...that his dad was down there
with his uncle...
...sounding like
he might have been crying, saying:
"I'm sorry for what happened
and I regret it."
Michael's dad was just consoling him
about, you know, the situation...
...and everything would be all right.
"You're not in any trouble."
A number of years later,
he and a friend...
...were picked up by Michael Hobbs Jr.
in Michael Hobbs Jr.'s truck.
My name's Cody Gott. This is fine.
You can use this for whatever you need
to use it for. You have my permission.
When he picked us up, it was like--
It wasn't the same Michael that I--
You know what I mean? He wasn't....
Wasn't in the same mood
that he usually is.
He's usually outgoing,
like, ready to go do something.
Ready to talk, ready to--
And he was just real quiet.
He wasn't as talkative, and I asked him
what was going on and he....
"What's up, man?"
And he said, he told me that:
"My uncle Terry,
he killed those kids...
...in that case,
in the West Memphis Three case."
And then he was like, well, "My dad
told me that my uncle's the one...
...who murdered those three kids and
it's been, you know, on my mind all day.
It's been just running
through my head."
And I was just in shock,
I didn't really know what to say.
Then, according to Michael Hobbs Jr.,
the second witness says...
...that his dad called this, quote,
"the Hobbs' family secret," close quote.
He said, "Only me, my dad, my uncle"...
...and I think maybe his mom...
...and someone else in the family
might have knew.
It might have been the other brother.
He called it the Hobbs' family secret,
and he said:
"If they knew I told you,
I would be in deep crap."
There was one third friend
that they thought...
...might also have some information.
What this third witness told me:
"Michael Hobbs Jr., a third friend and I
were playing pool in the basement.
During the game,
the third friend said something...
...about the West Memphis Three case."
Then this young man,
the third witness, asked:
"What's the West Memphis Three case?"
Might be the only teenager
in Arkansas...
...who didn't know what
the West Memphis Three case was.
He asked that question
and Michael Hobbs Jr...
...responded to him by saying, quote:
"My uncle killed three kids
in West Memphis," close quote.
And according to this third witness,
Michael Hobbs Jr...
...was dead serious when he said this.
He was not fooling around.
In addition to getting them to sign the
declarations under penalty of perjury...
...they all took polygraph examinations.
The polygraph examiner concluded
that these three young men...
...were absolutely telling the truth about
what they heard Michael Hobbs Jr. say.
I don't even think Michael knows
why he did it.
I just-- You know, he knows it happened,
he knows he did it.
And it was his dad--
His dad is-- Probably would know...
...you know, why he did it.
We don't have any power
as defence attorneys...
...to call Michael Hobbs Sr. into my
office and to ask him to tell me...
...whether he called this the
Hobbs' family secret and why he did.
The prosecutor can issue
a grand jury subpoena...
...and ask Michael Hobbs Sr.
in the grand jury...
...where he's under penalty of perjury
if he lies, "Did you say this?
Why'd you say it?
What did you mean?"
And I think
that's the kind of information...
...that only the prosecutor can get
that could really crack this wide open.
I don't give a shit
what happened 17 years ago.
I know what didn't happen.
Me and you didn't do nothing wrong.
So fuck them motherfuckers.
We're proud people. We don't have
no reason to tuck our head.
You hit a bump in the road, you wasn't
expecting a speed bump being there...
...but you pick yourself up on other side
of that speed bump...
...and go, "Damn, I didn't see
that one coming," and keep on going.
Pam's a speed bump.
I'll put her that way.
Was Terry capable? Did Terry do it?
Did I stay with a man
that possibly murdered my child?
And it does raise a lot of questions.
The court rejected every single thing
that the state argued.
Basically saying Burnett was wrong in
not allowing a hearing based on DNA.
One, by one, by one.
Just no, no, no. Wrong, wrong, wrong.
Finally the Supreme Court
has ruled in our favour.
We could not be more excited.
It was unanimous.
This is huge for Arkansas.
The Supreme Court is--
Has ruled in our favour.
The State Supreme Court
is on our side.
Finally. We won. We won.
The mother of Stevie Branch,
one of the three 8-year-olds killed...
...in that murder,
joins us now on the phone.
What is your reaction to the ruling
by the Arkansas Supreme Court...
...that the killers
can have a new hearing?
My reaction to it is...
...now with the DNA evidence
and things...
...that doesn't point
to the three men convicted...
...that lets me know for sure
they didn't lay a hand on my son.
They keep constantly
pushing the date of the hearing back.
First they told us
it was gonna be in June.
Then they told us
it was gonna be in October.
Now they've pushed it
all the way back to December.
The wake of the victory was probably...
...the most difficult
and frustrating time for Lorri of all.
"Dearest Lorri, you never, ever need
to apologise for how you are feeling.
I totally understand what you said,
and why you said it...
...and I'm glad you felt
you could say it to me.
This situation is so very hard.
You and Damien
have been treading water for years...
...and the shore never seems
to get any closer.
It's no wonder you feel like giving up."
After years and years of filing
and hear-- You know, this and that...
...and never-ending bureaucracy...
...it keeps going back and forth.
To go 16 or 17 years and finally have
what was a remarkable victory...
...and not simply for the three...
...but about the whole nature
of DNA testing in Arkansas.
Then say, "Well, when will this actually
lead to Damien being released?"
And the answer being,
you know, who knows?
"It took me a while to understand
what you must have learned long ago.
Nothing, and I mean nothing,
comes easily with this case.
The breakthroughs are small...
...and the obstacles never seem
to decrease in size.
Any small piece of progress
is clawed from unforgiving rock.
All we can do is keep going.
If we keep on pounding on the wall,
it will break, because it must break.
All things eventually break.
I would love to see photos of the 1920s
house in Garton when you have them.
It sounds wonderful.
Sending much love to you always,
Fran."
You're so worn down...
...you know, you might get something
like say a common cold...
...and the next thing you know, you're
laying in bed sick for next six months.
Damien, you know, he's struggling...
...because of the health issues
he's facing in prison...
...just not having adequate nutrition,
not being able to go into the sunlight.
You know, lack of vitamin D.
His eyesight is starting to dim.
Everything in your body
is just hurting and shut down.
It made me wanna be nicer to you.
It did!
Sometimes it appears to me that...
...the attitude of the players involved
in this case are:
"Let's sweep this under the rug,
let's hope it goes away."
No one wants to admit
they made a mistake.
What about the lawsuits
that are gonna follow?
And who cares about that issue?
Let's just do the right thing,
it's simple to do the right thing.
Something we'd planned on doing
was to try to get the state to agree:
"Let's just go right to the new trial,
because, of course...
...Damien and Jason and Jessie
are sitting in the cooler...
...each time there's a delay.
Let's get to it."
So the defence decided to approach
the state and say:
"Hey, let's skip the evidentiary hearing
and just go straight to a new trial."
Two weeks ago yesterday, we sent
Patrick Benca, our local counsel...
...in to have a lunch meeting with
Dustin McDaniel, the attorney general.
I've known Dustin from law school and
I knew he'd be approachable about it.
I wasn't sure whether he would
take it in consideration.
Matter of fact, during the lunch
he said to me, "That's a big ask."
But I felt that he was listening
to everything that I had to say.
Much to our surprise, the discussions
progressed sort of away...
...from the
"agree to the new trial" idea to...
...is there a way to reach a practical
resolution of this case for everybody?
The attorney general brought in...
...Scott Ellington,
a circuit county prosecutor.
He came to Little Rock
with a bunch of his lawyers.
The defence attorneys have maintained
complete innocence...
...on behalf of
the defendants all this time.
I mean, I don't underestimate our ability
to have obtained convictions...
...in these cases.
But I wasn't looking forward
to having to go to trial in this case...
...because of the deterioration
of evidence.
Memories lost.
You know, stories changed.
Every time there was a filing,
you know, there was a DNA....
Came out in the paper
that there's new DNA, new DNA.
I was not looking forward to that.
We didn't want to show weakness
in maintaining the judgement...
...so one of our positions was
the state is not making an offer.
The state said they're guilty.
Our guys said they're innocent.
How do you bridge those two gaps?
There's only a couple of options
in between.
We started making our pitches.
We started making our pitch
for the Alford plea...
...which we talked about
before going in.
It's not a perfect resolution.
It will be a guilty plea...
...but it's a very, very rare
and unique kind of guilty plea...
...where you get to
maintain your innocence.
Prosecutors hardly ever allow this...
...and judges have the right to say,
"We're not gonna accept it...
...because you can't maintain innocence
and plead guilty at the same time."
It kind of seems oxymoronic.
I'm-- I guess I'm kind of
a "shoot from the hip" guy to start with.
I kind of jumped on it real quick
and then the attorney general and I...
...visited just briefly and he was like:
"Are you sure
that you want to agree to this?
Are you sure this is the right thing
for you, politically?"
Because he knows
I'm elected as a prosecutor.
And this could backfire.
We knew what we needed to make this
deal, which is really only two points.
We needed it to be a deal...
...where the West Memphis Three
could maintain their innocence.
We needed it to be a deal where they
got out of prison the day it was entered.
Not two years from now.
Not, "We'll consider you for parole."
Not 10 years more.
Enter the plea, maintain your innocence,
get out of jail.
This notice was released today out of
the Craighead County Circuit Court.
It's vague, saying that the court
will take up certain matters...
...pertaining to the West Memphis Three
case tomorrow.
It went to Damien first...
...and Damien readily accepted it.
- How you doing?
- Then the deal went to Jessie.
- Been a while.
- It has been a while.
- And Jessie accepted it.
- We're almost home.
Which means by the time it got to
Jason, Jason had the full veto power.
If he said yes,
the deal would work for everybody.
If he said no, everybody was left
right where they were, in prison.
I come home, turn the TV on,
it's all over TV.
Rumour mill got started this afternoon,
and it's all over the place...
...but I think everything's gonna
work out fine in the morning.
His position was,
"I, Jason, would rather stay in jail...
...and fight this
with my last dying breath...
...until somebody recognises
I am 100 percent innocent."
There are reports that at least two
of the infamous West Memphis Three...
...could be released from prison.
And I told him
that I wanted three or nothing.
I didn't sleep much. I think
the last time I looked at the clock...
...it was 4:00 this morning.
Mixed emotions, all type of things, so....
What do you think is going to happen?
Are you pretty sure, are you not sure,
you doubtful this would happen?
I'm not sure, I'm doubtful, I don't know.
I'm just a pawn in this,
just like they are.
They've been a pawn
in this the whole time.
I have to say, because I've been in the
Arkansas Department of Correction...
...I understand
where they're coming from.
If I had to roll the dice for my freedom...
...or get out today
by copping to a lesser plea...
...I would probably take the plea
to get out of prison.
But then I'm stuck for life with the
stigma, while the real killer walks free.
- Who do you believe is the real killer?
- This is not justice!
- No comment.
- No comment?
- Do you feel any relief?
- No.
None?
I gotta go.
What are you gonna do next, Terry?
Hey, hey, Terry, just for a second....
There's the baby-killer. Talk to him.
This is a free world.
I can say what I want.
Freedom of speech,
First Amendment right.
I contacted the other attorneys,
asking them what was up.
If they knew anything
that was going on.
They really indicated
that they didn't know.
Jason was quite resolute...
...and not agreeing
to taking the Alford plea.
And, I mean, really that's about...
...the biggest illustration of innocence
that you could ever imagine.
But this was really coming to a head...
...and we didn't know how long
this offer was gonna be on the table.
And it was there for the taking.
We were trying to figure out
alternate ways to get in touch with him.
Somebody who cares about him and
loves him needs to be talking to him.
- We need to get Holly.
- It's busy.
I'm just gonna keep dialling
over and over.
You know, over the years
we've just grown to be....
I mean, I'm closer to Jason Baldwin
than I am to many people...
...that I have known my entire life.
Everybody just cannot believe
that he would choose to stay in prison...
...when he can walk out,
no matter what the reasons are.
I got a call from Lorri.
She said, "I'm gonna
ask Eddie Vedder to call you."
I was trying to explain to Jason, look,
anyone's gonna have to understand...
...locally and globally...
...State of Arkansas is not gonna let go
of three convicted child murderers...
...based on time served.
It's implied that they don't have enough.
They don't have enough to keep them in.
They don't have enough to win a trial.
I was able to get a call in to the prison
to have Jason give me a call.
He said, "This isn't fair.
I don't wanna concede
anything to the state."
He did not wanna talk about it,
and he didn't call back.
And I was devastated.
I believed in his decision,
and I didn't wanna question it.
I would never ask another man
to compromise his ideals.
But it was so close to freedom.
It was unbearable.
Not hearing from him...
...and not knowing what he was thinking
was unbearable.
Jason Baldwin is 16 years old.
He's been in jail for months.
And he's about to enter a trial...
...where prosecutors are going to ask
for the death sentence.
He's offered two deals in secret...
...if he would testify
that Echols had done the killing.
He tells the prosecutors,
"No, that would be a lie.
My mother raised me better than that."
The 16-year-old refused,
not once, but twice.
At 16 years old,
it never even crossed his mind...
...to throw somebody
under the bus to save his own skin.
So Monday night,
I get this call from him.
He says, "Neither option is really fair."
I said to him, "If you wanted to do
something you didn't feel right about...
...you could have done that
18 years ago and gone free."
And he said,
"Yeah, but the difference is, this time...
...I can set Damien free
by my decision."
I mean, that was his best friend,
you know.
This deal sucks,
but we want their freedom.
All rise.
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.
Be seated, those of you who can.
We are still waiting to find out....
I am David Laser, Circuit Judge of
Division 9, the Second Judicial District.
--continue today for this 11:00 hearing
on the West Memphis Three.
Will they be set free today?
Answer still unknown but,
of course, we will continue....
Mr Echols, Mr Baldwin,
Mr Misskelley...
...if you would stand, please,
and face the court.
Spend a lot of time explaining it. They
had a private, closed-door hearing....
Mr Echols, how do you wish
to plead in this case?
Your Honour,
I am innocent of these charges...
...but I'm entering an Alford guilty plea
today based on advice of my council.
And my understanding
that it's in my best interest to do so...
...given the entire record of the case.
Same as relates to you, Mr Misskelley.
How do you wish to plead?
I'm pleading guilty under North Carolina
v. Alford in the Arkansas rules.
Although I am innocent.
This is--
And this plea is in my best interest.
Everybody just be patient.
We're waiting too, like everyone else.
Just gotta stay in place.
Mr Baldwin, how do you choose
to plead in this case?
Your Honour, first of all
I am innocent of murdering...
...Christopher Byers,
Michael Moore and Steven Branch.
However, after serving 18 years
in the penitentiary for such...
...I agree that it's in the state's
best interest, as well as my own...
...that based upon
North Carolina v. Alford...
...that I plead guilty for
first-degree murder for those crimes.
All right.
The court finds that
there is a factual basis for the plea...
...the pleas are voluntary and will be
accepted and received by the court.
I'm aware of the controversy
that's existed.
I'm aware of the involvement
of the people in this case.
I don't think it'll make the pain go away
to the victims' families.
I don't think it will take away a minute
of the 18 years...
...that these three young men served...
...in the Arkansas Department
of Corrections.
What I've just described
is tragedy on all sides.
And I commend people in the case
that have assisted towards the end...
...of seeing that justice is served
to the best that we can do.
The tremendous judge.
He didn't have to say the things
that he did at the end.
Sometimes outside help
is in fact a big help...
...and for those of you who have been
a participant in that regard...
...that are here, I commend you
personally and publicly...
...for having done that.
It was great to see a crowd of people
outside of the courthouse...
...you know, 18 years ago
were screaming for blood.
And Damien, Jessie and Jason
walked out with their hands held high...
...and the crowd is cheering
and supporting them.
Some are happy, some are angry
and some are perplexed...
...and that's the case at the end of
every trial, and this one is no different.
First of all, I understand
that nobody in that room...
...wanted to hear from me, particularly.
I needed to be heard by my voters...
...and I needed to offer
some explanation.
I'll tell you, let me tell you this.
This judge was most likely
going to grant a new trial.
As far as gathering up evidence,
I hadn't gotten there yet.
I've not reviewed reams and reams
and volumes and boxes and boxes...
...but the evidence I've seen,
I believe these guys are guilty.
I know they pled guilty.
With their entry of a plea of guilty...
...we have removed the question...
...of them filing a civil law suit
against the state...
...that could result
in many millions of dollars.
I mean,
because you have three individuals...
...times 18 years is 54,
I mean, so, 60ish?
I have spoken with members
of victims' families...
...and I can tell you that they are
still suffering the loss of the little boys.
We put to rest a question
for these families...
...of the little boys that were killed.
These three individuals
pled guilty to the murder...
...of those three little boys that day.
That put that matter to rest.
Period. End of sentence.
I don't even know
where to begin.
I guess we eat, right?
I was dead-set against this, like a mule.
And I am not moving an inch.
I was just trapped up in it,
just by myself.
You reminded me that I'm not by myself
and I gotta think of everybody.
I have absolutely no idea
what I'm doing.
I'm just enjoying the moment, right?
I think that's cheese.
- You think it's what?
- There's cheese in there.
- Yeah. Cheese. Have you had cheese?
- Yeah, but not in a salad.
- All right, I'm done with the salad.
- Okay, let's move on.
And it's not just this war
between one person and the state.
It is everybody involved, you know,
and it was, like, how could I forget?
Mom!
I still feel like it's a dream.
I just talked to you Monday
and you didn't tell me nothing.
- I wanted to.
- Free man.
- My suitcase. Check it out, pretty cool.
- I like that.
I called him yesterday and said, "I got
a little suitcase and it's all packed."
And he said,
"I've never had a suitcase before."
It's these things.
- Gosh, I love you so much.
- I love you too.
Every time I turn around,
you wanna talk to me.
Look, every time I turn around.
It's great. It's a great feeling.
I'm used to the guards
being around me all the time.
Every now and then,
I turn around, make sure...
...you know, damn, is this really real?
Hey, man. How you doing, man?
It's a blessing, you know,
to be here with my family and friends.
Last time I seen them,
we was all kids and everything.
And here we are, grown up now.
That's really what
kept me going over the years.
When are you gonna
come to the house and say hi?
Prison is really hard.
You know, if I could stay out of prison,
I could go anywhere I want to, free man.
All I just got to do is, you know,
just stay out of trouble.
That's why I'm trying
to do things different in my life.
So I know I can do it.
I think we all had our mental image
of what this was gonna be at the end.
Which was three of these guys walking
out of the courtroom exonerated.
Everything I had in the prison,
I carried out in one small envelope.
Everything else,
when they told me I was leaving...
...they said, "Pack up
whatever you wanna take."
I just threw it all in the garbage
and left it.